[Sandyb]

Well that was kind of my point. They will sell them, as they have quickly sold out all of the similar recent limited edition things (i.e the stuff at UHNWI prices).

But the risk is that their more mainstream products / releases become more humdrum over time.

And as per your last sentence, the direction of travel has clearly been to raise prices and margins to compare with some of the more successful global luxury brands. This is indeed what the company has said on their investor calls.

It will mean that for some here, possibly myself too, some of their regular portfolio (be it Beolabs or Beosounds) are either out of reach or just down make sense.

[Sandyb]

Re their target market now, I’d point everyone to all their recent investor updates of the last 1-2 years.

They are targeting Ultra High Net Worth Individuals. I’ll leave it up to everyone here to decide whether they fit in that category, or Very HNWI just below, or anything below that. This is not my interpretation, this is what they have said.

Lower production volumes, much more bespoke and customisation, and made to order stuff. A production process more like Ferrari they mentioned last call i.e order, and long lead time.

Will there be still stuff for the more regular B&O customer? Sure, but the risk is that the more functional products will start to look a bit ho-hum, while the wow stuff will be at this price bracket.

[Sandyb]

Completely agree.

I have no issue, and indeed actively encourage, brave design decisions. Classic designs are often borne out of such decisions. Timeless achievements come out of this.

But this is, if anything, divisive only because of its price, nothing more.

The only achievement of these 50-60k systems is taking money from the mega wealthy. And perhaps, in line with the investor updates of the last 12-18 months, perhaps we should take more literally (their view/words) them becoming a company for the super wealthy alone.

Hard to enthuse about this kind of thing.

 

 

[Sandyb]

why so much effort?

I think the answer is the price.

The cabinet is desperately uninspired too, to my eyes.

[Sandyb]

Good to hear.

As Geoff recently reminded us, with Atmos tracks, if there are fewer speakers attached / assigned than the signal contains, the Theatre does not throw away the data relating to the unassigned roles, but folds that data back in and uses the existing speakers/roles – a bit of down mixing if you will.

[Sandyb]

indeed – if we look at the price of the 72-22 that came with BL18s, we can probably make an educated guess as to what this (with Bl28s) will be.

I know they sell out these limited run products, but its become a little sad that some of their aesthetically more special stuff is priced at 50k.

[Sandyb]

Yeah, it was only in the FlatPanels review that something was mentioned.

Anyway, I’m not too stressed about it tbh, as most of my movie preferences are not action type stuff, so Atmos is less of an issue (I used 6 Underground this morning just as a test, not a film I’d watch myself)

But having put in the UHD Dune disc this morning (Dolby True HD as the Atmos container) early on in the film there was some rain effects that were clearly noticeable as a pretty good height effect.

When I watched Dune for the first time last week on Sky (DD+ Atmos), that rain from above effect was weaker.

And thats before we get to the vocal mixing – on the broadcast DD+ Dune, usual problem of vocals back in the mix, hard to hear at sensible volumes, and the usual dance of volume up, and then back down, The UHD disc was perfect – could listen at volume 43-44 with perfect mix and clarity, whereas in the broadcast DD+ mix, at times volume was up to 55-56 to hear the vocals inteligegably.

Discs rule (at least for a movie worth buying)

 

[Sandyb]

I understand the “issue”, and picked a Netflix atmos movie (6 Underground) on both the WebOS NTFLX app and on the ATV NTFLX app.

I cant really tell any difference between the sound image produced, specifically when it comes to height effects (I dont have physical height speakers, only 50s up front and 17s behind me).

From what I understand (from the FlatPanels Theatre review), B&O have somewhat turned down the height/Atmos effects on the Theatre (they mentioned something about it being fatiguing in their opinion if jacked up fully).

I say this simply because, specifically absent physical height / ceiling speakers), and with the height image tuned down by the Theatre (by their design / admission), its not surprising we hear no difference (image height wise) between the Atmos / PCM and Atmos / DD+ signals.

So in the end, its not something I get over-exercised with.

If I really want a generally superior audio soundtrack, I just use a UHD BluRay. I just got Dune (2021) on UHD disc, and it sounds pretty fantastic, although of course thats full everything – Atmos / Dolby True HD, and the height effects are at times quite noticeable, and certainly better than either of the 6 Undergound Netflix paths I tried above.

[Sandyb]

agree, the A/B testing between streaming versions I did this morning is not an exercise I’d repeat, its a bit tedious and I’m not technical enough to understand exactly what the ATV does with Atmos streams from various apps before outputting it as PCM (the ATV doesn’t do passthrough).

But the A/B I did between the ATV Netflix and the webOS Netflix revealed nothing material difference wise.

UHD Discs on the other hand show some more obvious sound quality improvements.

Thats the extent of my wisdom!

[Sandyb]

interesting of course, but not sure if it addresses the original question though.

[Sandyb]

Steve, please do say hi to John when you next speak to him, and pass on my best wishes. Truly seems like one of life’s nice guys. Wish him well.

I’ll for sure give him a call when I next need some pointless and expensive upgrade!

[Sandyb]

the guys are correct – however you pass through DTS-X to the Theatre, it cannot decode it.

I’ve set my BluRay player to output DTS sources as PCM 5.1. Some media players only offer the choice of outputting DTS sources as PCM 2.0, it varies from player to player.

It is what it is I’m afraid.

[Sandyb]

I’m slightly confused, as you say the ATV is connected to the LG, but elsewhere you mention the HDI balun to bring things from the rack to the TV/Theatre.

So does the Apple TV physically sit next to / close to the LG / Theatre?

Forgive me if I am missing something.

[Sandyb]

Thanks – so you are using an HDMI extender (i.e what you refer to as the “Balun kit”) to connect the ATV across the room to the LG?

So, if that ATV is not running through the matrix, then I dont really have any suggestions.

I’m guessing you are in the Uk / London? Who did your installation? (I’m in London myself)

[Sandyb]

er, ok, though I dont understand the paragraph below that you wrote earlier…

“There is an AppleTV is in the rack. It connected to the LG via the HDI Balun bringing the feed from the rack to HDMI 1 on the LG. Conclusively, the AppleTV connects to the LG using the HDI Balun, and the former is in a rack which is 10 metres away.”

There’s not much more I can add really – i.e if the ATV, that is feeding the Theatre/LG setup, is going via the matrix, then as above, you won’t get DV. It’s as simple as that. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense – an ATV does not output video via network cable, that can then go into a balun, and then HDMI out to the LG. The ATV (in question) must be HDMI out into the matrix, and then out via network cable to the Balun. i.e it must be going via the matrix.

 

[Sandyb]

Your setup then must be as I thought.

The ATV is connected using HDMi to your matrix. The matrix outputs via network cable (CAT 6 to Cat 7 network cable) across your room (assuming this is hidden) to the LG/Theatre. At the LG/Theatre end, the network cable goes into the HDMI Balun, and HDMI comes out of the Balun and goes into the LG.

Thats how matrix setups work.

And if you have the Neo Pro 4*4, it is not DV capable.

So that is why you are not getting DV “from your Apple TV’. Its the Neo matrix in the middle that is preventing it.

It sounds like your matrix / rack setup was done a while ago by one installer, and now you are using a different installer? Not every installer is familiar with the nuances on different matrices. The Atlona 4*4 in recent years has been DV (i.e full UHD) capable, but the Neo Pro 4*4, whilst almost indentical, does not pass through Dolby Vision.

It’s really that simple. And if you want DV from your ATV, then you need to literally directly connect it to either the Theatre or LG (doesn’t really matter which).

 

[Sandyb]

personally, I’d got for the 20s for music listening.

I might be a bit old fashioned in my love for 2.0 music, but when I had 18s and 19, I didnt love the way music was reproduced. Wasnt by any means bad at all, but just didn’t quite seem right to my ears.

[Sandyb]

Again, it’s hard to help without you describing more closely the setup to the Theatre.

It does sound like you have your ATV connected into your matrix, and out to the Theatre (thats what the HDMI balun is for after all!) I have the same matrix setup in my home, and both of my Theatre rooms are connected to the matrix (albeit they only get/use one source from it).

If you have a Neo Pro 4*4, which is exactly the same as mine, it does NOT pass through Dolby Vision. It has a “profile” setting for 4K HDR, but I do not believe that covers Dolby Vision, only regular HDR.

So when Theatre does its handshake with the matrix and Apple TV, the matrix will only pass through 4K HDR, and not DV.

That’s why in my case, I have connected a ATV 4k directly to my Theatre, and I do not route it through the matrix, for the above reasons. The only thing I route through the matrix now is my SKY Q set top box for regular broadcast tv, and DV is not a factor there.

The unfortunate thing with the Theatre is that it has no matrix integration like the previous B&O TVs, so while you can receive signals/sources from anything connected to the matrix, you cannot switch between different matrix inputs using the Beoremote / Theatre.

Anyway, thats my strong guess as to what is happening.

again though, you would need to describe the setup a bit more clearly for anyone to help here.

[Sandyb]

you referred earlier to an HDmI balun – which suggests you have a matrix video distributor in you rack? Is that not correct?

This should be easy to sort out, but its a bit tricky w/o knowing exactly your setup

[Sandyb]

no, all your settings / calibrations are maintained.

I’ve been on 2.5.3 for a couple of months, nothing to really be concerned about.

[Author]

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