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My reading is the new direction is going to take time, B&O have not installed “Luxury”/”First Class”/VHNWI product support. So top dollar for the same product. Wealthy people inclined to buy B&O will lose patience very quickly.
I think in general, B&O are making some of the best products ever – BL90, 50, Theatre etc…but I think they have seriously underestimated the design and subsequent complexity of the Mozart software infrastructure. They also seemed not to have invested early enough in software engineering when adopting Mozart and have to scramble to get the bugs out ASAP.
When people spend $15k on a soundbar, $20-135k on loudspeakers, any hint of being a problem and people irrespective of affordability will temper their buying impulses.
I think I seem to have been fortunate in the Software front with the Theatre and BL90s. But many here have not. Many of us are de facto beta testers and have to dial-in for support for problems that should not have ever come to market.
B&O are changing their target audience. Moving away from those middle-people who buy mid-tier BeoVisions, and Beolabs repeatedly every 4-5 years and looking instead to the kids to buy headphones and bluetooth devices and the VHNWI’s who will buy 97inch Harmony’s and 7.0.4 surround systems with 6 Beolab90’s coloured in atelier multi-coloured turd-sprinkles for that individual look in the NY and Miami penthouses at “whatever the cost”
The problem is the kids will give Beoplay’s 3 to 4 star ratings and the VHNWI’s will find the flagship gear so full of repetitive software bugs….they will be too dumb to fix, get frustrated and have the landscape gardener throw it all in the trash bin. It will be a tax-deductible (but profitable) loss and an “oh-well, who’s next” thing.
You could use one of the MyButtons for Live TV and set the startup volume somewhat higher there. Sure that does not solve ‘the problem’….if there is any – but it makes things less annoying. MM
I don’t think it does?
Sandyb’s problem is the sound format. Some channels on Live TV broadcast different lower grade formats……PCM2.0 to 5.1. this is where the “bug” lies. On the UK Freeview service, you can literally CH+/CH- and go 5.1, 2.0, 5.1, 2.0………..
“Higher grade” subscription services (Netflix, Disney, Amazon) can do 5.1, DD+ or Atmos. These subscription services tend to have a more consistent playback sound/volume (less format changes) and not the problem from Sandyb’s perspective and not where the PCM2.0 bug resided.
What I do find…is that specifically with Netflix, it tends to play quite a bit louder than others – and that can be solved by Mybuttons on source change.
The “bug” needs to be fixed by B&O PDQ.
What I don’t understand however is that reading across multiple forums is some people like myself have not experienced the volume dip bug as SandyB does in 3.2.1, or the switch to standby or a good deal of other bugs? I do not recall the last time I noticed the PCM2.0 problem for many months (not just SW3.2.1 update).
Whereas this particular instance seems to have swapped one bug for another, from reading, SandyBs Theatre’s seem to be very buggy, whereas mine seem not to have (they have had issues – but nothing like SandyBs issues).
I have a hypothesis that this issue is a lot deeper than we know and a reason why B&O can never seem to fix the issues in Mozart. Old bugs never get written-out, or come back or new bugs replace old ones. I think the problem is the additive nature of Mozart and when peripheral equipment is added (speakers, Beolink, other Mozart devices or Set top boxes of any flavour or HDMI devices), specific code comes (configured) in and unintended consequences result. Add this speaker and this HDMI device…no issues. Add something else…or different speakers or a Set top box or an AppleTV combination…and issues appear?
I’ve had 3.2.1 for a few weeks now. No issues on my side.
You don’t state if you have Front L/R with the Theatre or standalone, nor the size/distance for sound at 55?
I have found a need (going back over the last couple of months at least) to ease-off the BL90s db and increase the Theatre Soundbar db level. (Configured C-C-C). I typically listen to Atmos movies at 40 volume – so it all comes into effect.
I imagine if B&O have done anything to the soundbar, they have probably just stepped up the attenuation to make it a bit more controlled and less boomy at a given volume and given roomsense calibration and given accompanying surrounds etc..
Although it remains a problem for standalone BL17s on “dumb” music systems, there’s nothing stopping the BL17 being voiced to original specifications (or improved specifications) via the DSP Theatre?
The other aspect is….that I always assumed the BL17/18….software updates were for WISA upgrades and not for the voicing/sound of the speaker. I dont know if that is correct or not….but it would be excellent if it could? I wonder if this is automatic, or you have to plug the SW into a USB stick and use the Theatre as a Transmitter1?
Just ordered a pair today from my Dealer.
Natural Alu with Oak. Table stand included in the box I’m told.
Also told they WILL link with the Theatre wirelessly via WISA without sync issues.
Complicated devices. Hard to determine with the given information. I would advise you find a technician who can do proper diagnosis.
The lack of calibration sounds like the central EPROM/Processor may not be too good as that is independent of any music input.
I would say yes. Do you have a red LED flashing or does it go green?
I would also look at playing with connections from your PreAmp from one speaker to the other – just to see if its not a cable.
If you have the opportunity to connect coax from a digital output – try that?
Are the two BL5s synced together with the 3.5mm volume cable (I think you need that with Digital input, the RCA 0 to 2V should be enough for analogue volume control.
Doesn’t the BeoSound Theatre have a pair of up-firing fullrange speakers? Or do you mean something like a stand alone BeoLab with height?I would say that’s exactly why they won’t make a upfiring Beolab speaker. As I see it, soundbars alone are useless to deliver an Atmos experience. What they do is exactly what I was eluding to…..add a sound interference that gives a perception of depth and somewhat muddies the sound stage. I expect that a good deal of Theatre Owners with 5.1 or higher setups have either toned back the upfiring speakers either by RoomSense automatically or by manual adjustment.Another point…..although the exception I’m sure, my livening room consists of a very high vaulted ceiling. Going from 3m on the left side increasing to 6m on the right of the living room and the pitching down to 3m again over the kitchen. the span will be 10-12m.
I suspect there will be very few loudspeakers for the domestic market that could light that up properly via ceiling reflection.I dont think so.
I wad given Beta 3.2.1 a couple of weeks ago but received no instructions other than to log the experience. No stated improvements were listed. No Beta/User adjustments were stated as required.
My general assumption – given what is in the public domain currently is that a) there was general de-bugging of Mozart issues, and b) possibly new algorithms for newly released products (BL8??)
So I did very similar to you – buy a used pair of BL17s from a B&O Dealer. Requested that the BL17s were flashed to the latest software before dispatch. (so i didn’t have to buy a BeoTrans1).
- How can I tell if they were really flashed to the latest SW? No proof?
- What difference did it make? Don’t know…cant compare.
- What was in the SW update? I heard anecdotally it was for WISA improvements only….no change to the Sound and as I’m wired configuration only…….
Im sure that lots of people have contrary views but most of the Beolabs ever….have received analogue signals and although I get the itch of many to simplify “the chain”, I still prefer my BL90s to receive XLR analogue signals from an Auralic Vega G2 DAC rather than play from the Auralic G2 Streamer via coax or USB.
As a further side note, I have difficulty connecting a USB link to my BL90s (I think the length is too great – over 5m, and/or the cable not good enough) but it seems to link at DSD64 (88k sample rate input – approx). The Coax output to the BL90 works fine and indicates 178k sample rate input.
The question to answer technically (I have a preference – which is what I actual do) is, Stream, upsample to DSD512 internally, DAC to Analogue to XLR to BL90 OR, Stream, Upsample to DSD128 (178k-ish) and send to the BL90 via coax?
I prefer the Analogue signal into the BL90s but there’s not much in it.
I guess the answer is…it depends?
The depend is that the BL18s do not have volume control.
Therefore, this must be done either at the Cambridge CXN (digitally to the Coax/TOSlink) or via the App you use to control the CXN.
I connect my Auralic Altair G1 (RCA/XLR out to RCA in ) BL17. Its all at the Analogue state – much I guess where you are now and the volume control works perfectly with the Auralic App. so its all down to the CXN doing volume control on a digital output?
Honestly, I dont think you will see a big uplift in SQ by staying in the all-digital domain. I believe we are over-conditioned with various Writers musings, YTers Vblogging etc that digital is the only way and shortening the chain is best etc….
Decent recordings and good room prep are far far more important in my book.
I think the expectation is you mount them high on the wall bracket or buy the Ceiling brackets. Other than that….there are Celestials for true overhead ceiling speakers.
If you are thinking about up-firing speakers, then no. I dont think B&O would do that. I would see it as a USP for some manufacturers but not a great solution. B&O have spend a lot of time, effort and money to actually NOT have in-room reflections and nodes in their music and visual systems
There is no problem to use the Lyngdorf with Beolab 5, I did it many years, it is absolutely transforming the sound coming out from the Beolab 5 after running the RoomPerfect setup, it is really night and day. As long as you don’t use the Speakers output, you only use the PREAMP part of the Lyngdorf. I don’t have experience connecting them by line in, possibly you will be able to control the volume with the Lyngdorf and power them on. Give it a try and you will see, don’t forget to set the Lyngdorf not full range and start with volume at -50. But it would really be a pity to not use the full path in digital and use the BL5 internal DAC that is truly excellent. But you will need a Beo4, that’s for sure.
Think I pretty much said that…..
“Do not send an Amplified signal as this will damage the BL5s. IIRC 2V is the max analogue voltage.
If there is a non-DAC coax output or line level it should be OK but please please confir with BnO”
I think I would be very careful with the Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 as it is a Streaming DAC Amplifier. External Amplifiers and beolabs are not a good combination. Do not send an Amplified signal as this will damage the BL5s. IIRC 2V is the max analogue voltage.
If there is a non-DAC coax output or line level it should be OK but please please confir with BnO
I use an Auralic Altair G1 streaming DAC with a 2.2vmax RCA output to a pair of BL17s. Works perfectly. The Auralic software controls the volume and has an inbuilt algorithm to attenuate -3db, -6dB and -12dB to give volume sensitivity (I use -6dB)
In a way…..and this is my bad…..the BL8s are a lot bigger than I imagined based on the initial perception from the press photos. I had a quarter-sized BL6000 in my minds eye. The dimensions state the truth but real life gives it context I guess?
I think its something to do with the name…….”USB”. Something universal about it so it can do many things in different ways. That is unless you need it to do something to an Apple device that is
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