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I set up an extra Listening Position to be able to do some comparisons between using 7.0.4 with the fronts and rears being BL9 speakers and using 7.1.4 adding a Beolab 2 subwoofer with the same setup. Adding the BL2 definitely adds more overall warm bass to the sound. However, I feel that adding the BL2 takes away from the sense of surround sound. I used the movie “Lucy” for the comparisons. This is one of the movies that has been recommended for its use of Dolby Atmos. I’m wondering if the diminished sense of surround is due to the capabilities of the Beolab 2, if the bass of the four Beolab 9 speakers without any additional subwoofer just works better for surround sound, or if I have all of the settings entered manually in advanced settings for the Beolab 2 connected via Receiver 1 are just wrong and that has a big impact on the surround sound. I suspect Geoff Martin would have some interesting explanations about this. I really hope that B&O gets the Receiver 1 support properly implemented so that I could just rely on Room Sense to take care of all of the settings.
There could be a different solution for you. I’ve been considering the project of using a spare 3500 above a jacuzzi in my bedroom. For my project, I’ve considered using an NL/ML Converter with a ML Power Box — that’s the very tiny box that you must connect to the NL/ML Converter when there is no ML Audio or Video Master present. This would give you the AUX input of the NL/ML Converter as well as any sources such as Deezer, TuneIn, etc. that you get if you have any NL product such as just an inexpensive Beoplay M3. This would give you a great deal of flexibility of source buttons to which you could map the sources. Now that I have an extra NL/ML Converter and ML Power Box I have everything that I would need for the project.
I think what we can take away from this is that understanding the formats can be (unnecessarily) confusing when the user just wants it to work and enjoy the best possible sound.
There’s a mentality that since all streaming services only use Dolby and not DTS that DTS support is unnecessary. This could be true for someone using streaming with just the TV’s internal speakers or a cheap soundbar. However, the Theatre should be much more than just a cheap soundbar. With the high performance of B&O speakers, we can really take advantage of the best sound possible and let our B&O speakers shine.
In addition to my post above, Dolby Digital Plus (DD+), is a streaming codec used in Amazon, Netflix and Vudu and supports Atmos. The DTS-TrueHD Atmos extension gets folded into the DD+ bitstream, and is either decoded or ignored depending the receiver’s capabilities. DD+ uses lossy compression, DTS-TrueHD does not. DTS works in a similar manner but this time, it should be accompanied with extensions to enable more advanced format playback. This may be Hutsefruts problem? He may not have the accompanying extension in his files to allow transcribing by an Atmos receiver?
I think you made a typo in using “DTS-TrueHD” when you actually meant “Dolby TrueHD” for Dolby’s version of lossless. DTS’s lossless format is “DTS-HD Master Audio.” Streaming services only use lossy Dolby. Whereas, we get the full lossless formats on discs — if they are included on the disc. However, some discs will only offer lossless in DTS -TrueHD and lossy for Dolby. And vise-versa. When it comes to object-based formats such as Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, it must be decoded in the receiver, i.e. the Theatre. Object-based formats cannot be sent LPCM. They would be down-mixed for LPCM. B&O should just make it simple and provide us with both Dolby and DTS formats (including Dolby Atmos and DTS:X) to make it simple for us.
I’ve been comparing the same, myself. I believe I notice richer colors when streaming directly though the LG apps. Yet, the video on the Apple TV seems more natural. I’m not quite sure which is actually better.
We shall agree to shake hands and laugh, my friend.
I will humble myself in admitting that I’m not innocent in not getting the most out of something. I never drive my Porsche over 60 MPH and asked my Porsche dealer about the convenience in having just one set of all-season tires. He gasped.
Mr. Ten Percent, please know that I respect you, and I certainly envy you for having BL90s and a Kaleidescape. However, you’re just not going to convince me that it doesn’t matter about getting the best possible sound format. I know this is an extreme example, but you’d certainly notice a difference between playing a VHS tape through your BL90s and playing a UHD disc with object-based lossless sound through your 90s.
A word of advice to getting the best possible sound out of your Theatre: Do not assume that just popping a disc in the player and pressing “play” will give you the best sound. Be mindful of your audio setting of the disc. Some studios do not play the Dolby Atmos track by default. For example, the UHD of “Bond” movies and UHD of “Game of Thrones” will not default to Dolby Atmos. Soon after receiving my Theatre, I sat through “No Time to Die” and only realized near the end when I checked the sound format through the B&O app that it was playing the Dolby 7.1 lossless track. Granted, the sound was fantastic. However, when I changed the audio setting of the disc to Dolby Atmos and rewatched a few scenes, I was truly blown away by the improvement.
P.S. On that same “Jason Bourne” disc, the Spanish track is DTS-HD (lossless but not object-based) and the French track is DTS Digital Surround (lossy). So there can be quite a variety of audio tracks on one disc that are not of the same quality.
I went to a pile of movies and pulled a couple as an example.
The US boxed set of “A Discovery of Witches” has DTS-HD MA only. Absolutely no Dolby options. If you’r player can decode and send in LPCM, you’re fine — but no if it doesn’t. The UHD of the movie “Jason Bourne” offers audio in DTS-X but no Dolby versions. If your player can decode and send the audio to the Theatre via LPCM, you’ll get a downmix that is not object-based. However, as it stands now we cannot get the full object-based audio (DTS:X) at all through the Theatre. This is why B&O needs to support DTS on the Theatre.
I’m afraid that you’re still confusing things. There are two competing formats: Dolby and DTS. Each has lossy, lossless, and object-based versions. Object-based is more than just height channels. Some object-based soundtracks do not even use height channels. Discs often support some versions of both Dolby and DTS, but many offer lossless or object-based in only Dolby or DTS and not both. So we have to chose which soundtrack. B&O should just support both Dolby and DTS so that we’ll always be able to get the best soundtrack.
There is a huge difference in quality that you get between lossy and lossless. Why would you spend the money on BL90s and a Kaleidescape system if you’re not going to get the best sound from your system?
I’m not arguing for the superiority of one format over the other. Rather, I’m just pointing out that disc provides a far superior sound than streaming. Looking at the fact that nearly all streaming is one format (Dolby) neglects the fact that some disc content will only give us the best possible sound with DTS — just because they only offer that as the best sound. Movie collectors will have a great amount of movies that only offer the best audio in DTS format. Therefore, if we’re to enjoy the best possible audio on all movie content, we need both formats on the Theatre.
I haven’t seen the mentioned issues. However, I’ve been seeing for weeks that if the Theatre has been in standby for over about an hour that starting the Theatre does not turn on the LG screen. If the Theatre has been sent to standby and is restarted within a short time, then the LG screen turns on and there is no problem.
I was suggesting some titles that you might look up on the Kaleidescape store to see if the best possible sound quality is DTS:X. Kaleidescape is dedicated to providing the best movie experience at home (or on a yacht, lol) so that’s a good source to see how we need to be able to get the most out of our B&O audio and video.
The list of DTS:X blu-ray/UHD movies is pretty long. Included in the list are the Harry Potter movies, Fifty Shades movies, Jason Bourne movies, and Jurassic Park movies.
I think B&O have been hammered endlessly in the past for going their own way with standards and have listened it seems to their customers and integrated the “current hot potato” of movie sound formats: Dolby Atmos. People can argue this way or that but despite the success of the BS Theatre, and it’s price point, they won’t be selling thousands of them like the mainstream manufacturers. As a consequence, I guess they needed to lockdown a design and a licence, rather than trying to buy them (formats) all in.
Do you see many DTS:X movies on your new Kaleidescape?
Most blu-ray/UHD players should be able to decode the DTS and then send sound to the Theatre. Where we really need the Theatre for decoding is with DTS:X and the new DTS:X Pro formats.
I think that B&O is making a mistake in listening to claims that only Dolby and Dolby Atmos are the only formats needed because DTS is hardly ever used in streaming (excepting the Kaleidescape system — which is a difference creature altogether and more downloading than streaming). For people with lower-end audio systems, streaming might be fine. However, with higher performing speakers that you get with B&O you can tell a HUGE, MASSIVE difference between streaming and physical disc (or Kaleidescape). In looking through my huge blu-ray/UHD collection, I was surprised to see how many titles really do use DTS.
How do you manually add a speaker connected to the Receiver 1? Thanks
You cannot include the Receiver 1 in the speaker group when performing Room Sense or Room Sense will completely fail. After you create the listening position with Room Sense without the Receiver 1, you select the listening position, touch the three dots in the upper right corner, and then select Advanced settings. This will allow you to then select the Receiver 1 to include in the speaker group. However, you must manually input all values for the speaker — it isn’t automatically calculated by Room Sense. This feature was added in the latest version of the B&O app.
So how does Theatre know there is something connected? My assumption was some speaker role was added (even if manual addition and even if it is seen as Receiver 1 but may have any speaker connected to it). Obviously, I’m unable to simulate this. Assumed something in “edit positions”
The manual addition in listening positions is far from ideal — but it’s the best we have for right now to add a Receiver 1 until B&O sorts this out to have the proper calculations done in Room Sense. The Beosystem 4, that did not have internal WISA support and relied on a Transmitter 1, would have us add 3.5 meters to the actual speaker distance to compensate for the delay. However, from reading the Beovision Technical Sound Guide it sounds like Beovisions that supported WISA already adjusted for the sound delay.
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